I TALK TO Jordan Gray

"Putting it out now means so much more than if it had come out two years ago. I'm really proud of ITV for doing that."

Actor, comedian and screenwriter Jordan Gray first appeared on our screens in 2016 as the first-ever transgender performer to take part in The Voice UK and in 2017 took the leap to pursue a career in stand-up comedy instead, before taking part in ITV's 2018 documentary Transformation Street which followed the extraordinary transformations of those who believe they were born into the wrong body.

In 2020, Jordan created and starred in a series of online shorts for Comedy Central called Transaction, which relaunches today on ITV2 and ITVX as a full six-part series. And two years later, stormed Edinburgh with her sellout debut Fringe hour, Is It A Bird? before creating one of the most talked about television moments of 2022 with her rather unique performance on Channel 4's Friday Night Live.

Now as her debut workplace sitcom Transaction arrives on ITV2 and ITVX, Jordan will be seen starring alongside Nick Frost, Thomas Gray, Francesca Mills, Kayla Meikle and Doon Mackichan as Liv, a transgender egomaniac, causing havoc in the strange world of the supermarket nightshift.

Having been hired to work there by Pellocks boss Simon, after he inadvertently offended the LGBTQ+ community with an ill-conceived marketing campaign, Liv soon realises she’s unsackable and sets about turning the store into her own personal playground, unleashing chaos on everyone and everything around her.

I recently caught up with Jordan to discuss how she hopes Transaction will be received, what it was like working with Nick Frost, how the show almost had a very different title, which TV show she'd love to be asked to go on and so much more!

Let's begin with your route into the industry, because you started as a singer, right? So, how did you go from singing to comedy?

I did. Straight out of school, I suppose, I was a pop singer with a keyboard and a piano, and that went really well for about 10 years. I got to tour Europe and I did a bunch of albums, and then I did The Voice in 2016.

On The Voice, they did something called 'Marvin's Corner', where they give you a microphone live on TV to say how you're feeling about the show. And I had so much fun improvising in front of the live audience, I just thought I want to do this instead now.

So I just politely told everyone I didn't want to do music anymore and I'd rather write jokes. I then sat in the front row of a comedy club called the Top Secret Comedy Club on Drury Lane in London, for months with a notebook, just watching comedians and making notes of how it's done.

And I worked in a casino. I haven't told many people this to be fair, I was a cleaner in a casino for about six weeks until I broke my leg... I broke my ankle, not my leg. But I did that in the meantime, because I was just like, I don't want to be a singer anymore, but I'm not a comedian yet. So I should do something in between.

Then the comedy just took off really fast because I'd just been on The Voice, so it was an easy thing for people to stick on their posters and say 'As seen on The Voice." which is funny, really, because it's got nothing to do with comedy. It's like, if I'd done Come Dine With Me, you wouldn't say 'As seen on, Come Dine With Me.' There's no connection there, but it did mean I got lost of opportunities quite quickly and it' taken off really fast.

Then 2022 came along. Your superb Edinburgh show, Is It A Bird? What was that year like for you, and what about the three years since?

It changed my life forever. I can't actually really remember much of life before '22 because it has changed by a factor of like 100. It was such a beautiful month. August was the best month of my life. I've never slept better every night, because things were going so well. I was sleeping on a couch that was two thirds of my size in a friend's house because it was Edinburgh, so I had to. But it didn't matter, because it was amazing.

It has led to so much television and meeting sort of everyone in unscripted and scripted TV in the UK and abroad as well, like those conversations are happening now, but everything sort of happened all at once. It was overwhelming and as a working class comedian, it's the best feeling in the world.

And then it sort of it gave way to, I think, a little bit of, I don't know if I would call it workaholism, because I'm not a professional mental health expert, but I would say that I'm on a track now that is just work, work, work, work, work. There's a lot of fun to be had there, but it doesn't leave a lot of time for a social life. So right now my my job is to try and balance those two things.

And then Friday Night Live happened, which was a huge talking point and those who understood it loved it, and the small minority who didn't chose to complain. Looking back now, what was that time in your life like?

I wouldn't change a single thing. That's how much I enjoyed it. The response was wonderful. At the beginning, it was really fascinating to see the pushback, because I could see it objectively from the outside, that some people just didn't understand it and that's how people react when they don't understood. So I understood that part.

But then over time, you can't avoid that stuff getting into the back of your brain. The violent rhetoric around it. The vitriol. It's real poison. But I am reminded that there's no such thing as an evil villain twiddling their moustache, trying to hurt you They really believe that they they're the heroes in their own stories and I'm a terrible terrible human being

So I guess I'd say over time, it knocked my confidence a couple of times, but luckily I'm just living my dreams. So that does make up for it.

When you cast a massive net, you're going to catch a few angry... fish. Is that a metaphor that we've just made up between us? I think it is. And they are just angry. They're angry people. Justifiably or not. I don't think it's justifiable, but in their minds it is. We've got to stop telling people that they're afraid of each other.

They're angry. They're angry about something they don't understand and they've got to get it out. Once you've dug yourself in, it's embarrassing to dig yourself out again, and sometimes impossible. I've don't know if you've ever tried to dig yourself out of a hole, there's no dirt left.

Let's talk about Transaction, which began as a series of shorts for Comedy Central. What was that process like? And then how did it move to ITV? When did they come knocking?

It was really fast at the beginning, like all short form is really fast. That's why people love making short shows. You get a small budget, although it was quite big for Comedy Central at the time, but still relatively small. We shot it in one week at a real supermarket in London and it went really well and was the highest performing thing that they've made.

Then In the succeeding years, Nick Frost said, "If it ever gets made for television, I'd love to play the boss." So his company was able to extract it and then it was a very, very long process of commissioning. ITV ordered a pilot just before I went to Edinburgh in '22 and then once my career had really taken off, then they were like, "Okay, let's do it. Let's make the series." It was a really good month. That month did change my life forever.

And we've been making it ever since. I wrote the episodes, there's one guest episode written by another writer called Sarah Page and we shot it in November last year. TV is really fast at the beginning, really long in the middle, really fast at the end. So we've just gone over that last bit and now the press all coming out is another like fast paced bit. It's exciting. I can't believe it's now.

How are you feeling, now that your baby's about to be out there? Because, as you say, it's been such a long process to get to this stage.

I think I've not got the skills to appreciate it yet because what happens when you're working class is you get so good at suffering for your work there's no suffering left. Now it's done! It's going to go out into the world and what can I do? I can't suffer. There's no suffering left so I think my job is to try and enjoy it.

How would you describe Transaction. What's the elevator pitch?

I play an affirmative action hire in a supermarket that turns out to be such a nightmare and now they can't fire her because she was an affirmative action hire. I'm brought in to cover up a PR disaster that happens, but then I turn out to be more of a nightmare than the disaster in the first place.

If I was in an elevator and I was pitching it to you, I'd say it's Community in a supermarket or 30 Rock in a supermarket. It looks quite American in my mind. It's very colourful and glossy. The script is very, very British with a really high joke count. That's what 30 Rock and Community had in common is there's 12 jokes to the page, and I needed to hold us to that standard.

It goes a bit kooky. It escalates in its psychedelia towards the end. We've got a noir episode and a sci-fi spoof episode. Every episode, honestly, it's rare for British TV, but somebody did say to me, we haven't sandwiched everything between our two best episodes. It starts and then every episode incrementally gets better. Which is a bold move. Well, it wasn't on purpose. I think that's just the way it came out. Because the episodes just get weirder, and in my opinion that makes them better.

We never see a customer. It's all set during the night shift. What drove you to that decision?

So that we could do those strange homages, because anyone that's worked overnight knows that things get a bit unusual and the darkest humour comes out at one in the morning. You know, you're racing each other down the aisles on swivel chairs and stuff and it just seems completely normal at two in the morning, but you would never do that in the middle of the day.

It allows for a magical realism that I really wanted to write. So when things get very strange in the show, it doesn't actually feel that strange because it's the night shift. There have been many supermarket shows, but I don't think they've been set during the night exclusively. I think it's really funny that you don't see a customer in this show ever.

It's called Transaction, but transactions don't take place in front ofyour eyes. I like it. I spent a lot of time with friends who worked in supermarkets and we'd have doughnut fights at two in the morning across the store. It's so liberating to through a doughnut across an entire supermarket.

On the title, Transaction. How did you settle on that? Were there other names in the mix?

The double meaning was an executive when we made the original short form show who said we should try and crowbar in a pun. But I had originally called it... this is so stupid... so the working title for it... I can't believe, I'd forgotten this completely... the working title for the show was Beans on Tits.

Which means nothing and it was never supposed to be the title. But what happens in TV is people are so polite to each other that for six months, that was the working title on all the legal documents until somebody came to me one day and said "I'm so sorry, Jordan, you know, we, we can't call it Beans on Tits." I was like, "Of course we can't! Obbviosuly."

So technically it was Beans on Tits and then someone at the last minute came up with Transaction. I've grown to like it. I like that there's a little double meaning. If you don't know what the show's about, but you see my face and you see the title you go "Oh okay, it's a transgender person in a supermarket."

Liv could have easily been the hero of Transaction. But she isn't. Which I like. Why did you decide on that?

She's the protagonist, but she's definitely not a typical hero. I like protagonists where you don't need to think that what they're doing is right. You just have to understand why they're doing it. That's the best heroes. Like in House, I was a big fan of House M.D. and he's an awful person, but he saves lives. So you're like, "Oh, okay, I guess he gets away with being awful."

She's really manipulative, but so is like Jack Sparrow. But we like Jack Sparrow because we like seeing them achieve what they're trying to get. Liv wants attention. She wants to be the most loved. She wants to be beloved, and she doesn't really want to work very hard. But then really, if you keep digging, she just wants to be part of a family and she doesn't want to let go of her friend Tom. So now she's taken on an entire job where she gets to see him all the time at work and then all the time at home.

Over the course of the series, it's seeing the relationship between Liv and Simon, her boss,

grow and seeing Liv and Tom's relationship be challenge, it's really cool, man. I enjoy it now just like a fan because it's been a while since we shot it I get to watch it just like a show It's come out great. They've killed it. Everyone in the show killed it.

You mentioned Simon there, played by Nick Frost. How did he come on board, and what's it like working with him?

He saw it in its short form and there was one episode where we're getting told off by a aboss and I think he just thought that he'd do a great job of that. And he is very correct in that assumption. He's so, so good.

He is a consummate professional. Usually he's in his trailer working on his script, but if he is on set, he's got his script and it's got a million notes on it on every word, the inflections and the way he's going to like try new stuff. In the show, most of the takes of Nick are him improvising a joke.

The first time that happens as a writer, you're like, "But I wrote this a certain way." Nick Frost says something and it's a million times funnier than anything I could write. So you just wind him up and let him go.

Same with Francesca Mills. The two of them are such great improvisers, and those two on screen... Millie and Simon in that first episode in the office, most of the dialogue is improvised It's so funnt. They're so funny.

Nick is also a really good person to have on set because he keeps everybody on their toes. You're needed sometimes for your eyeline for an actor, so he can be looking at you off-screen and me and Tom (Gray) aren't helping because we're just laughing at everything he's saying. Like we're just watching him on a TV show, forgetting that we're in it.

Were you a fan of Spaced growing up?

Absolutely. In case they hadn't seen Community, because it's American, in a document, we said to ITV "This is Spaced in a supermarket" and then Nick got on board and we were like "Oh. This literally is now Spaced in a supermarket."

Self-aware humor is always really important to me and it's really hard to get that on terrestrial TV, because it's not everybody's taste, but Transaction is a show that knows it's a sitcom, which I think is great because we know it's a sitcom, so why wouldn't the show know that it's a sitcom?

One thing I love about Simon is that he's so desperately trying to prove his allyship, but his jokes just miss...

It's so hard for an actor to pull that off without seeming disingenuous because I would argue that the internet kind of gives a false reading of this, most people are just really good, lovely people trying to do their best. So then casting your mind into the head of somebody that doesn't know all the right terms and doesn't know the right words, and is getting them wrong, that's so hard for an actor to pull off without seeming real.

He manages in real life to just be this beautiful, supportive, lovely man, and then he steps into the character and I believe that that guy doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's trying his best. It's so fun to write, and he would also come to me a lot on set and ask "Is it all right if I say this?" or "Is it right if I try this as sort of an on the line joke? How far can we push it over the line?"

He's very respectful and knows exactly what he's doing. He's a smart man. And that translates to that character, because I think you have to be really smart to play a bit of an idiot as well. It's really hard to play. If you're a good singer, it's really hard to sing off key on purpose. I'm not saying that's me. I'm just saying that to play stupid, you have to be really smart and he's very smart man.

There are some brilliant one-liners in the show. Any favourites?

I'm really proud of a line in a later episode. Doon Mackichan comes into it later in the series and Simon's made another massive mistake in his PR attempt to win over people and she says - it's such a good line - she says "Have you ever thought about installing a bidet on your front porch because the amount of shits you take on your own doorstep is staggering?"

I loved it as a little bit of language. It's just a great little bit of language. I like jokes that do sound written, delivered by amazing actors, because then they make it seem just like a really gorgeous piece of language.

I agree, and I think you also do that really well.

Thank you. That's really sweet. That is being a stand-up. Your job is to make something sound like it's the first time you've said it, even though you've said it 200 times. When you write a script, it's so much easier to get those rhythms in, because they were there from the beginning in your brain.

Giving that over to somebody that's not a comedian, there can sometimes be a bit of a translation issue where you you don't want to give them line readings, you've got to let people do their job. But sometimes, we can massage the way that people talk a little bit and say "Can you just go up at the end?" or "I think it'd be funny if you stopped in the middle there." And that's just being a comedian. You feel that there's a rhythm.

One thing I admired about Transaction was how you subtly, and with humour, deal with real-life issues affecting the trans community. The line about Harry Potter, for example, is perfectly pitched. How do you decide what to include and how to include it?

That's such a great question. No one's asked me that. First of all, I only write scripts with information that the majority of people already have. So most people, maybe I wouldn't say most, maybe it's somewhere sitting around half and half, of people who don't have any idea about the Harry Potter connection to the transgender world, just because it's not hit their radar. But it's in the news enough that maybe half of people know there's some connection.

That's a very subtle little joke. I do like layering up, so there's jokes that are just for transgender people in the show, that's kind of one of them - or allies and transgender people. But most of the jokes that are being said out of people's mouths are stuff that anyone has heard of. Toilets. Sports - transgender women in sports.

Stuff that's on everybody's radar, because I really didn't want the show to feel like it was excluding a bunch of people that are on the fence and have no idea. We've got a really good opportunity here to make something really funny and have people go away saying "Well, I've never seen a transgender person. There's one. They made me laugh. I wasn't being told off or being hit over the head with a hammer. I think maybe transgender people are probably okay, because I've been watching this one for six episodes now and she seems fine." And so that that's the job of the show

Why do you think comedy is such a great vehicle for tackling real-life issues?

It's the only way I know how to do it, because I'm not an activist. There are so many amazing qualified activists in the trans community and outside. I just don't have that skill set because I don't have a fight-or-flight mechanism. I just, faint. You know those goats at the back of a pack of goats? I'm that one. I just fall and die.

I haven't got any fire in me, but I do know how to make comedy, I think, at least at the moment, it seems to be going all right. So I'm just using the skill that I've got. Like if I was a

baker, I'd make really good woke bread, but I don't know how to make bread!

The last UK sitcom featuring a lead transgender actor and character was Boy Meets Girl, which aired 10 years ago. Why do you think they are so few and far between?

We are a very small part of society. The news would make you think that we are everywhere all the time, like sort of sleeper agents, you know, like we're just going to activate one day

and become transgender. There are so few of us, so it would be lovely to see more, but

realistically speaking, there's just not that many.

There's so many transgender people behind the camera and obviously loads of amazing transgender people in the industry working on things, so it's great to see one finally pushed to the front.

Putting it out now, means so much more than if it had come out two years ago. I'm really proud of ITV for doing that. Kevin Lygo, Big Talk and Nana Hughes, the commissioner. Big up Nana - have put so much behind this project.

Terrestrial TV, everyone's up and down on it, but we've got to remember that these organisations are made up of hundreds and thousands of people. It's not like one guy decides what's going on.

What are you hoping to achieve with Transaction? Who are you hoping will watch, and what would you like them to take away from it?

I hope that transgender people and their allies and families will enjoy it just as a piece of comedy that feels inclusive. So I'd like transgender people and their friends and family to enjoy it.

Then everybody else in the middle, I'd like them to be surprised that it's quite good, and actually just a well written and created an active piece of comedy. It's not got an agenda, because it really genuinely doesn't have an agenda apart from to be funny, but because I'm transgender that makes it a political hot potato.

And then I'd likee everybody outside the very small angry people to see it and go "Oh, that's really annoying because it's actually fine. It's not a propaganda piece, it's just a bit of comedy." And then maybe they'll change their minds a little bit. I don't know.

What's left on your career bucket list that you'd like to achieve in the next 3-5 years?

Well, my new Edinburgh show, the difficult second album syndrome of a second Edinburgh show is something I need to conquer. My new show, Is That A Cock In Your Pocket Or Are You Just Here To Kill Me? - I think they should all be questions, because Is It A Bird? worked. I would like to smash that, so we'll make that work.

I'm quite a solitary and introverted person, we got a deal to write a book a little while ago and then the nature of the content changed so I decided I wanted to write something else. So I think a book, I think I'd like to write a really big book. Or a series of small one. Whichever comes first!

Also, I'm a Marvel nut, so anything that Marvel or DC wants to give me, I don't mind the quality of it, I am along for the ride. So I'd love to play a really obscure superhero, like one of the obscure X-Men characters that have only maybe been in one comic. I just want to play a superhero in something.

Let's hope that happens! What about shows like Strictly, The Celebrity Traitors, I'm A Celeb... Any of those take your fancy?

We've been offered so many to do, but it's just time constraints. I'm not allowed to say which ones, but some big big shows. But we were shooting a sitcom, so maybe now that time has opened up?

Taskmaster is the holy grail for comedians. Just because it's fun and it's all the people we love. So Taskmaster is a big one.

I like doing panel shows. I really like popping up on QI or The Last Leg. I like it when anyone asks me to write a song at the last minute, because that's my whole job. Writing musical comedy, so I'd like some more of that.

There's a lot of TV coming in the next year. That sort of thing, I'll do the rounds again, once the sitcom drops. Then fingers crossed for season two!

Absolutely. Have you started planning for future series?

Yeah. I want to explore Millie and Tom more, because we only got a little taste of them. in series one, but you'll see as the series goes on, that there's a little frisson going on there. And then I would like to just blow everybody's stories wide open.

In a first season, you have to be a little bit safe because you need to introduce people. Then once you know who they are, you can blow everything wide open.

Ooh.. maybe Liv finding love.? he doesn't seem like the sort of person that would care that much about love, but I think there's something there maybe. I don't know.

Transaction airs Tuesdays at 10.05pm on ITV2 or all episodes are available now on ITVX