I TALK TO Rosie Jones

"I'm always striving for more, because if we don’t do that, we will never achieve full and accurate representation for all."

Comedian Rosie Jones began her career as a researcher in television working on shows like The Last Leg, 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown and Would I Lie to You?, all shows she has since gone on to appear on as a guest.

I first interviewed her back in 2018, ahead of her debut hour at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, and have had the pleasure of speaking with her multiple times over the year for I Talk Telly, whether for her follow-up Fringe show, her wonderful travel series, or her brilliant documentary. And now, as we speak again, it's to talk about what Rosie was always destined for, her very own sitcom.

Launching this week on Channel 4, Pushers, written and created by Rosie Jones with Peter Fellows, follows Emily, a young woman who has her after having her state benefits cut to shreds and being made redundant, has very little left to lose and begins to build an illegal drugs empire.

But Emily isn’t your average street-dealing dope peddler, she’s sharp, funny, biting, highly educated, and on top of all that, she has cerebral palsy. People have underestimated Emily her entire life. If they’re not patronising her for completing the most menial of tasks, they’re pretending she’s not there.

What better disguise could there be for criminal activity than to be entirely written off by the same broken system which exists to protect the law?

I recently caught up with Rosie on the making of her debut sitcom, on how she feels about disability representation in the industry, on her comedy inspirations as well as her upcoming tour, the launch of The Rosie Jones Foundation and so much more!

Last time we spoke, you ended the interview by manifesting your own sitcom, and now here we are. How does that feel?

Good. But I don’t know what to do now, because I feel like I’ve achieved every dream and more. So what’s now? Retirement!

Where did the idea for Pushers come from, and how long ago was that?

Ages ago! We came up with it in 2018, so it’s been seven years in the making. And it's actually based on real life… not the drugs! But I did have my benefits cut and me and Peter Fellows, the co-writer, started to think about how many millions of disabled people would be affected by the cuts.

Then we thought about the lengths someone would go to, to pay the bills. And of course, the comedy aspect to it is a little lady with Cerebral Palsy, dealing drugs. But no one suspects her. So she flies under the radar.

We thought that was such a fun opportunity to play with. So yeah, seven years in the making, but we did it, baby!

Can you relate to Emily’s situation?

Yeah, I absolutely can. I think I get underestimated and patronised, every day of my life. And I think a lot of disabled people can relate to that. On top of that, the idea of disabled people being infantilised and treated like children.

That’s not the world I have ever lived in, so I think the ways in which me and Emily do differ though, is I have quite a strong family network behind me which set me up for life. That meant I walked through life not taking no for an answer and proving people wrong. It’s made me the person I am today.

Whereas I don’t think Emily had that network. She certainly didn’t have people in her family around her, to lift her up. So when we meet her, she’s almost an invisible woman. No one believes she can be someone, but as soon as she gets the opportunity to be someone… even though it’s in the scary, highly illegal underground world, she takes it.

Why did you want your first sitcom to be about that sort of character?

I think it would have been easy for me to write a disabled person who was nice and likeable and friendly, but that’s boring. And like everyone, there’s a whole spectrum of disabled people.

Being disabled is never a personality type. We really wanted to write this rich, three-dimensional, flawed, at times selfish, human being, to prove disabled people can be twats.

What did you learn from doing the pilot?

Lots! It was amazing to get the opportunity to get the Blap, because it not only gave us the time to work out if it work as a long form concept, but it allowed us to audition and find Ryan McParland, who plays Ewen. He’s going to be a megastar. And we found Lynn Hunter, who plays Pat.

That was so integral when we went to write the series, because we could write Emily, Ewen and Pat, with me, Ryan and Lynn in mind.

In terms of things we would do differently, I don’t think there was any major thing in the Blap that we were like “Whoops. That doesn’t work.” All we did, was go “Great. That works. Now let’s push it to make it the best it can be.

You did change the title…

I liked Disability Benefits, but we all thought it sounded like a documentary. Especially because I’m the lead of the show, it’s quite believable that I would front a doc called Disability Benefits. So that was the main reason, but yeah, I always love a play on words, so I was sad to lose it. But Pushers just feels more fun and easy and sitcommy.

And your character's name has also changed from Rosie to Emily…

Basically, we were being really unimaginative in the Blap, and I feel like, by giving Emily a different name, I was able to separate myself from the character. So yeah, from an acting point of view, it meant I was playing this whole different woman, but also hopefully it will dissuade a lot of people from believing that I am actually a drug dealer.

How did the writing process work between yourself and Peter?

Me and Peter have been working together for eight years and we’ve got to the stage where it really felt like we had the same brain. One of us would go “How about we do…?” and the other one would go “Yeah!”

We did initial writing separately. So I would write one half of an episode, he would write the other half and then we would swap it between us. For later drafts, we would be in the same room as each other, literally going through it line by line, making sure we got the most jokes we could out of every single page.

How did writing a sitcom compare with your other projects?

It’s really different. You know me, I love working, I never stop working, and I can’t explain it, but every single thing, activity, walk, thought, person I see, I am now able to put it into a category. So I go, “That would be a good stand-up routine.” Or “That would be a great bit in the sitcom.” Or “That would be a great character in my book.”

I feel like I’ve given you a shit answer. But there’s just something in my brain that is now, able to differentiate between the different types of writing I do.

For the sitcom especially, writing with Peter was amazing, because I usually do all my writing on my own. So it was great to bounce ideas off another person.

It was challenging at times, because you’re dealing with six individual episodes, with strands, characters, arcs, so it’s a bit like doing a puzzle. But I love puzzles so I was all in!

Ryan McParland, who plays Ewen, is brilliant. How did you find him?

Back at the Blap, we saw a load of actors to play Ewen and Ryan just jumped off the screen. I remember, even at the time, thinking “Oh it’s got to be him!” He’s so good, and I won’t downplay myself, because I have done a bit of acting now, but I wouldn’t feel confident to call myself a proper actor. So to get the opportunity to act with such amazing people, it really heightened my performance to another level. And it was an absolute pleasure.

What are some of your favourite scenes from the series?

Oh it’s hard to say, because I don’t want to give a lot of spoilers. But the end of episode one, the explosion, was very fun! And the entirety of episode six takes place in the hospital, where I spent loads of time running through corridors. So yeah, episode six as a whole was very fun and very chaotic!

What were some of your comedy inspirations when writing Pushers?

I grew up with such amazing female-led sitcoms. I’d say dinnerladies, The Royle Family, The Vicar of Dibley and I think it won’t surprise you that like the entirety of the nation, I watched Gavin & Stacey at Christmas.

I think what links them all together, is characters. Likeable, northern, working class there-dimensional characters. So when we were writing Pushers, that was in the front of our minds.

Beyond sitcoms, throughout the process we had Shameless in mind. The idea of northern, working-class, funny characters, just trying to get by and survive. So I’d say Shameless is the show our sitcom is most like.

Will you be watching the series when it goes out?

Oh yeah! I’m already thinking about having a party. We’ll all be watching from my living room.

Have you started thinking about a second series?

Yeah, me and Peter have ideas that take us right up to series five and there are things we have planted in series one that you’ll find out in later series.

You’re going back on tour, it's called I Can’t Tell What She’s Saying, why did you settle on that title?

That title is what a lot of people who don’t like me online, tell me time and time again. So reclaiming it and naming my tour after the haters, is almost using their form of attack to them and going “Touché! What are you going to to now?”

I love my tour. You know me, I love everything I do, but stand-up comedy is my first love and to be able to be on the road again, telling jokes, meeting my fans and making that connection is so exciting. It’s what it’s all about.

How important is it for you to still make time for stand-up, considering how busy and varied your career is?

My agent is amazing and she takes my lead with a lot of stuff. We had that conversation and I was adamant that I never wanted to lose the stand-up side of me. All going well, I would love to do a tour every other year… until I die!

You've also recently launched The Rosie Jones Foundation, tell me a bit about that and why you wanted to set it up.

I got to the point with my platform and my career, that I wanted to do more. So, I sought out a philanthropy consultant, who usually helps pair people with the right charity.

When I met with her, I was very determined that I wanted to help, specifically adults with Cerebral Palsy, with a focus on mental health. Because if you’ve got CP, you’re 44% more likely to have depression, because time and time again you’re going into a world that isn’t set up for people like you.

My philanthropy consultant, who’s amazing, came back and said “There are small charities doing amazing things in pockets of the country, but in terms of nationwide, there aren’t a lot of services and care out there for adults with CP.” So I thought, “Right. If it’s not out there, I will create it.”

So I employed my amazing friend Ash, who’s the exec director of the foundation, and we’ve been working very hard, burrowing away for over a year now. Not only making connections that are already established in the charity sector, but really doing our research to know exactly who needs our help and how we can help them.

We launched two months ago and so far I couldn’t be happier and prouder. We’ve already done our first fundraiser. Ivo (Graham) pushed me in the Leeds marathon and we raised over £8,000 for The MS Society. It’s the proudest thing I’ve ever done, because it’s something bigger than me.

Since your documentary, have things changed towards you on social media?

Nothing’s changed, apart from my own approach so I’m not on X anymore. I use Instagram sparingly. But no, people haven’t changed, so I had to implement changes, in order to ensure that my mental health stays OK.

I wanted to talk to you about The Celebrity Traitors. You were rumoured to be taking part, were you ever approached?

Did it?! They didn’t ask me, but I would have accepted in a heartbeat. I’d want to be a Traitor.

One show you did take part in since we last spoke was Taskmaster. What was that experience like?

I mean, it’s one of my favourite TV shows, so to get the opportunity to be on it, was a dream come true. What Alex, what Avalon, what Channel 4 did, in order to make it possible and accessible for me, was amazing. I do not think you would watch that series and be like “Oh, this is a disabled one.” They just made it so that I could take part in every single task, without it ever feeling patronising or childlike. They did it so well and meant I had the time of my life.

On that, do you think disability representation in television is improving?

Yeah, absolutely. And what I do in every show I lead and work on - so definitely in the documentary, in the travel show, in Out of Order and in the sitcom - I was adamant that we needed to employ disabled people behind the camera, but we also had to set up a disable trainee schemes and also in Out of Order and the sitcom, we always have an Access Coordinator on set with us, to ensure that every single person, disabled or not, gets their needs met. Because I feel like when you invite a wholly inclusive and welcoming environment to a set, it just means that everyone has the capacity to perform to their best potential.

On top of that, I think it would be very easy for me to go “Great, you’ve booked me.” or “Great, you’ve got my sitcom.” And then I could do nothing. I could pull the ladder up behind me, but that isn’t who I am, at all. Also, producers, execs, commissioners, I’ve told them time and time again that they cannot simply enjoy me and go “We got one!” And pat themselves on the back. I'm always striving for more, because if we don’t do that, we will never achieve full and accurate representation for all.

What’s next for you?

Out of Order is coming back. I’ve got a new book out at the end of the year. A few projects I can’t talk about yet. And of course, the tour. So I’m a busy lady!

The last time we spoke, you said you wanted your own sitcom. Now you’ve got that, what’s next on your list?

Ooh… well this relates to my stand-up show, which is all about being single and then being in a relationship, so maybe, less work and let’s manifest the girlfriend!

Pushers airs Thursdays at 10pm on Channel 4